DSD without USB on Win10 PC possible?

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Presley
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DSD without USB on Win10 PC possible?

Post by Presley »

Hello!

Is it possible to implement a chip in such a way that you dont need the USB interface anymore to get a native DSD output on a PC with Win10 using ASIO drivers only?

If not, is it possible to do it with the ethernet interface instead (no USB)?

I am asking because omitting the USB would produce in a better sound output that is not crippled by the USB interface which was never intended for audio anyway.

Greetings

P


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infiniteimprobability
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Post by infiniteimprobability »

Is it possible to implement a chip in such a way that you dont need the USB interface anymore to get a native DSD output on a PC with Win10 using ASIO drivers only?
ASIO sits on top of the device driver, so as long as there is a device and associated driver that supports a RAW audio format (as opposed to PCM), then this would be possible (eg. you could make a PCIe card or similar). Writing your own driver and developing an entire custom device is *many* man years of work. Take a look at the TSN standard (thousands of pages) for a flavour of what you may need to do.
If not, is it possible to do it with the ethernet interface instead (no USB)?
See above - you would need to write a host driver that abstracted the ethernet interface and presented an audio driver API that the OS and ASIO could talk to. It sounds feasible but, my word, what a lot of work. You'd be writing your own audio over ethernet standard.
I am asking because omitting the USB would produce in a better sound output that is not crippled by the USB interface which was never intended for audio anyway.
Not sure I follow this. What is inherent about USB isochronous transport that cripples the audio? It's a bit perfect transport with guaranteed bandwidth reservation (no buffer under runs) and the audio device has full control over the MCLK. I am not sure there is anything else you can do at the digital end of the audio device to ensure better quality?
Presley
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Post by Presley »

Thank you for such a quick reply!

I was kinda hoping there already exits such a DSD PCI card.

Well if no one wants to do all this work, please tell me if i understand this correctly, if i presume that the ethernet way is less work?

Also please tell me, is there any DSD1024 capable USB adapter in existence?

Why i dont want the USB in audio?
well its true, for general listening a 1BIT DAC or a USB powered external SoundBlaster are just fine. Even audiophiles use USB DACs a lot. But after doing some research i found out that transport systems even if intended especially for audio can degrade the sound (and i am not talking just about jitter). here is a very good example: http://lampizator.eu/digilampizator/CD% ... zator.html

so why bother if for general listening a standard audio interface is actually more than enough? because i intend to use the DSD for a very special purpose and not general listening to music while doing my dishes.
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akp
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Post by akp »

It is true that if there analog design problems then USB can cause problems (e.g. ground loops, radiated or conducted emi). I have seen 1kHz tonals in USB 1.1 recording devices caused by the 1kHz full speed frame rate. But like infiniteimprobability says the MCLK is under the control of your hardware so it can be as good as you want it, and you have bit perfect transfer over USB. But if you want to do the work I would be interested to know the results.

The implementation of the speakers, amp, DAC, clocks, power supplies, etc will have a bigger impact on sound quality than USB will.
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infiniteimprobability
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Post by infiniteimprobability »

Thank you for such a quick reply!
No probs!
I was kinda hoping there already exits such a DSD PCI card.
There may be such I thing - I don't know. I'm an engineer at Xmos so I'm more of an expert at applying our chips and software rather than knowing the full range of audiophile market offerings.
Well if no one wants to do all this work, please tell me if i understand this correctly, if i presume that the ethernet way is less work?
It's a whole bunch of work. Host driver, hardware, embedded firmware. Many man years of work and $100Ks of investment I would think. And after all of that I'm not sure how transport of audio data over ethernet is any better/worse than USB, or any other bit perfect digital interface.
Also please tell me, is there any DSD1024 capable USB adapter in existence?
I'm not sure - I think XMOS could handle the bit rate (45,158,400 Mbps) on the pin OK but stereo DSD1024 would exceed the ISO endpoint limit of 64Mbps. Stereo DSD512 feels doable on XMOS, but personally I have only ever done DSD256. https://www.xmos.com/download/private/A ... rc1%29.pdf
Presley
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Post by Presley »

well future is coming soon: https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/matrix-x- ... mment_html

but i dont understand what hardware does put DSD1024 out over a i2s HDMI cable? is this hardware yet to be invented?
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