XTAG2 firmware update?

Technical discussions related to any XMOS development kit or reference design. Eg XK-1A, sliceKIT, etc.
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jonathan
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Re: XTAG2 firmware update?

Postby jonathan » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:09 pm

___ wrote:If somebody would like to manufacture and distribute the XTAG-2 for less than $50 then we would be delighted to support it.
The only company that can (currently) economically do this is XMOS, because it can use the programmer as a means of opening up more revenue/profit elsewhere.

I want a quote for a run of 1000 XTAG-2 boards. I am going to give them away to members of this community and other hardware communities. Cost please?
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jonathan
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Postby jonathan » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:14 pm

Commercial customers have requested JTAG as standard for programming XMOS devices, the functionality of the XTAG-2 is based on this.
I am a commercial customer. So is almost everyone else on the board! There are people here building real products, and code, to sell onto real customers.

I have a potential market for 1 billion chips. I am not joking.

I think that qualifies me. What else do I need to do to prove it to you?
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Neil
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Postby Neil » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:44 pm

jonathan wrote:I want a quote for a run of 1000 XTAG-2 boards
We are quote happy to entertain quotes for volume orders of any of our products or to negotiate alternative commercial arrangements. Like any sensible commercial organisation, however, do not do this on a public forum.

For a confidential quote please email sales@xmos.com or contact your local XMOS sales representative.

I think you will find that a JTAG programmer at a $50 one-off retail price is extremely competitive and is certainly not out of line with others offered on the open market.

Alternatively, all of the schematics, gerbers and design files for the XTAG2 are freely available to download from our website, should you wish to undertake the manufacturing and support of such a product on a third party basis. We do this with all of our board designs in order to encourage third party developers and manufacturers. Please note that if we gave our boards away we would remove any economic incentive for them to do so.

Neil
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Folknology
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Postby Folknology » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:47 pm

Just as a point of price comparison NXP offer their LPCXpresso kit which includes the ARM target board and JTAG programmer for £17.86 at Farnell http://uk.farnell.com/nxp/om11048/kit-d ... dp/1777673

I know this because I have one it's a brilliant little kit

Why wouldn't you want as many folks as possible developing Xmos product, by lowering the barrier to entry?
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jonathan
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Postby jonathan » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:57 pm

Neil wrote:I think you will find that a JTAG programmer at a $50 one-off retail price is extremely competitive.

Alternatively, all of the schematics, gerbers and design files for the XTAG2 are freely available to download from our website, should you wish to undertake the manufacturing and support of such a product on a third party basis.
I have already explained above why this doesn't make sense.
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Folknology
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Postby Folknology » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:17 pm

I am willing to accept Neil's challenge
Alternatively, all of the schematics, gerbers and design files for the XTAG2 are freely available to download from our website, should you wish to undertake the manufacturing and support of such a product on a third party basis. We do this with all of our board designs in order to encourage third party developers and manufacturers. Please note that if we gave our boards away we would remove any economic incentive for them to do so.
In fact I will go one better:

1) I will build a board that lowers barriers to entry for Xmos development.
2) I will use the open designs etc as provided to embed the xtag2 into the product
3) I will add more features to make it even better to develop with whilst maintaining support with the Xmos XIDE

All You need to do is opensource the complete Xtag2 software, so I can build it from source to create the required firmware, and to allow me to adjust for any changes in the future you may wish to make on the xtag2XIDE side.
I need this to guarantee that purchasers of the board would not be left high and dry if changes are made to the xtag2 operation.

The ball is in your court, please allow me to lower the barrier to entry, by opening and publishing the XTag2 code/spec.

regards
Al
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oar_some
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Postby oar_some » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:10 pm

You only need one programmer for a billion chips remember

Also, XMOS don't charge for tools/licences etc
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Folknology
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Postby Folknology » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:37 pm

oar_some Your assumption is based on selling 'programmed' chips.

What if the model is not based on this, but rather is based on re-programming chips
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daveg
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Postby daveg » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:54 pm

@Folknology If it's based on 1 billion chips being re-programmed then you'll be making a lot of money with your cheaper XTag2 alternative! :)
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Postby Folknology » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:05 pm

@daveg I would love for it add up to a billion chips! :D

The market opportunity is far too big for any single player..

That would be ambitious to start with, I think Jonathan is referring to the bigger market this possibility offers, not just the designs/requirements I am working on.

The point here is that we don't just program them and ship, they are actually custom programmed in situ. All of the designs in the family are like this, it is a key feature and emerging market.

Also I wouldn't assume that the model is based on making profit on selling chips/boards/hardware its much more involved than that.

I am itching to eat into that billion, I have the requirements and designs, I just need Xmos to opensource the Xtag2 code in its entirety.

*Update I should also add that everyone in this community would benefit from the work that we would do here, we will bring it right back to the community for open usage. Also as the volumes increase this could also lower everyone's costs.

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