8051 educational kit
-
octal
- XCore Addict
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:30 pm
- Location: Argenteuil - France
btw, I renamed the project on the projects page as : Microprocessor/Microcontroller educational kit :ugeek:
-
ale500
- Respected Member
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:15 am
Zilog hat also the eZ80 series that run with 3.3V. I got a dev kit for it some years ago... it is still collecting dust wating for a project I will no longer do... The Z180 is great and you can get PLCC and maybe DIP64 versions, rare but not impossibke to get. A 68008 is also an option, while quite rare it has a 68k core and only a 8 bit BUS. Did you nee my pPropQL project ? I used propellers as IO controllers and resistors as level shifters. The XMOS could here do much more due to the greater speed.
-
octal
- XCore Addict
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:30 pm
- Location: Argenteuil - France
Hi ale500,
thanks for these details. I know about the eZ80, but I never got any experience with it.
I'll try to check the pPropQL project (it's on Parallax pages I suppose?). I tought to XMOS because I have more ideas ;) If you check on the forum, I already asked (and never got answer) on loading dynamically modules to an XMOS. I think I'll use the XTag2 idea of using a minimum OTP code that loads each time the firmware through USB from PC. The idea is to implement on the same controller XMOS some modules that will let it act also as a peripherals handler. For example, the teacher (or user) can select on the software (on PC side) to have a 2 PIO, one SIO, some additional XYZ hardware ... He can just PLUG them by software to the controller XMOS and they are usable from the Z80 programs.
Think at the XMOS as a bus controller, and a DYNAMIC hardware that can be reconfigured on the fly by a PC/MAC side application to make the Z80 dev board more versatile (without having to plug/remove hardware modules).
This kind of applications is generally done using a reconfigurable FPGA, and I want to do it with XMOS!!!
We can do it quickly with XMOS as the XC language give more flexibility than Verilog/VHDL ;)
thanks for these details. I know about the eZ80, but I never got any experience with it.
I'll try to check the pPropQL project (it's on Parallax pages I suppose?). I tought to XMOS because I have more ideas ;) If you check on the forum, I already asked (and never got answer) on loading dynamically modules to an XMOS. I think I'll use the XTag2 idea of using a minimum OTP code that loads each time the firmware through USB from PC. The idea is to implement on the same controller XMOS some modules that will let it act also as a peripherals handler. For example, the teacher (or user) can select on the software (on PC side) to have a 2 PIO, one SIO, some additional XYZ hardware ... He can just PLUG them by software to the controller XMOS and they are usable from the Z80 programs.
Think at the XMOS as a bus controller, and a DYNAMIC hardware that can be reconfigured on the fly by a PC/MAC side application to make the Z80 dev board more versatile (without having to plug/remove hardware modules).
This kind of applications is generally done using a reconfigurable FPGA, and I want to do it with XMOS!!!
We can do it quickly with XMOS as the XC language give more flexibility than Verilog/VHDL ;)
-
ale500
- Respected Member
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:15 am
Yes it would very flexible! A minimal loader on the XMOS could load the different drivers and restart the threads, a simple serial protocol could then be used. In a way the hive (realized with 3 propellers) works that way. I thought of something similar but went with a FPGA due to some specific requirement but an XMOS would be ideal. I have both boards, well the xos one still needs testing and fpga one needs being finished and manufactured, lets see which one wins in the end... the xmos most probably :-)
-
Andy
- Respected Member
- Posts: 279
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:34 pm
What's the point of teaching people how to program a 30 year old chip? Surely it would make more sense to just teach the XCore?
-
octal
- XCore Addict
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:30 pm
- Location: Argenteuil - France
Hello Andy,
What's the point at learning or teaching PIC 16 or 18xx programming ? XMOS is a better architecture.
What's the point at learning or teaching avr programming ? XMOS is a better architecture.
What's the point at learning or teaching avr programming ? XMOS is a better architecture.
...
before I suggest this project, I asked myself a lot this question.
The answer to where I got is:
1- XMOS is a very nice architecture, and it's already desserved by an excellent toolchain providing an emulator and all what a hardware JTAG can give you as flexibility. You can teach, using XMOS, sequential programming, parallel programming, multithreading, interprocess and interprocessors communications, ...
If I had to make a dev board for it (and I'll) I'll make something giving all kind of needed accessories to tests all proof of concepts techniques (USB comm, implementing various protocols, ...).
2- Why then an OLD architecture? I could have choosen ARM (or cleaner, the MSP430 2xx series) where orthogonality is a rule (I know the exceptions ... as usually on any architecture mainly cause of fab processes). But 8051 (as is Z80) despite being OLD is still one of the MOST USED processors core in the market. A lot of engineers are still exposed to it when going to the market. A lot of dev kits at univestity and a lot of pedagogical material are still done for this architecture.
My idea was to simply create one of the pedagogical teaching KIT like those already on the market, but providing more visual feedback and more interactivity to users while working on TRUE HARDWARE (not simul/emul).
As I said, we can even replace the Z80 or 8051 with an XMOS emulating it (by emulating even external signals) in order to be able to give more feedback on what's happening inside the MCU core (regs, PC, ...).
This can be a good exercice as it mean that the teacher not only can use this kit to teach asm programming (which can be done on a simple software emulator), but he can also let engineers check signals, FORCE signals to certain state to see how the mcu/cpu reacts (forcing NMI, or Mem Ready signal, ..) ...
this can make this kit a trully MATERIAL experience instead of being a simple wired logic that executes bits of code.
What's the point at learning or teaching PIC 16 or 18xx programming ? XMOS is a better architecture.
What's the point at learning or teaching avr programming ? XMOS is a better architecture.
What's the point at learning or teaching avr programming ? XMOS is a better architecture.
...
before I suggest this project, I asked myself a lot this question.
The answer to where I got is:
1- XMOS is a very nice architecture, and it's already desserved by an excellent toolchain providing an emulator and all what a hardware JTAG can give you as flexibility. You can teach, using XMOS, sequential programming, parallel programming, multithreading, interprocess and interprocessors communications, ...
If I had to make a dev board for it (and I'll) I'll make something giving all kind of needed accessories to tests all proof of concepts techniques (USB comm, implementing various protocols, ...).
2- Why then an OLD architecture? I could have choosen ARM (or cleaner, the MSP430 2xx series) where orthogonality is a rule (I know the exceptions ... as usually on any architecture mainly cause of fab processes). But 8051 (as is Z80) despite being OLD is still one of the MOST USED processors core in the market. A lot of engineers are still exposed to it when going to the market. A lot of dev kits at univestity and a lot of pedagogical material are still done for this architecture.
My idea was to simply create one of the pedagogical teaching KIT like those already on the market, but providing more visual feedback and more interactivity to users while working on TRUE HARDWARE (not simul/emul).
As I said, we can even replace the Z80 or 8051 with an XMOS emulating it (by emulating even external signals) in order to be able to give more feedback on what's happening inside the MCU core (regs, PC, ...).
This can be a good exercice as it mean that the teacher not only can use this kit to teach asm programming (which can be done on a simple software emulator), but he can also let engineers check signals, FORCE signals to certain state to see how the mcu/cpu reacts (forcing NMI, or Mem Ready signal, ..) ...
this can make this kit a trully MATERIAL experience instead of being a simple wired logic that executes bits of code.